Hi Again - having put the software aside after previous problems I decided to revisit it for a new project and am finding more quirks. http://inspirationmotivation.com/ferry/index.htm Here is where I am testing the site -- only from the home page are all of the links to the other pages all working so you will have to navigate back to home before checking out other pages..

I will start with the outline shape - as you can see (in explorer ) there is a small indent between the header area and the bottom of the page. The line up of the areas is also being a nightmare - if i set the xy factors and properties the same width wise they aren't the same widths either in preview or publish if i do it by minusing the outline width on one of the objects sometimes they do line up - but even if they do in preview they don't always when published. I have tried moving the overall outline to the top of the page, moving it up and down and setting it at the bottom of the header and I still get this indent.

Any ideas?

I haven't templated the site yet and I might help but that doesn't help with when I want to create similar pages but that are unique to prevent this from happening.

Thanks for any input.

I've just recreated the same problem (as I'd done it a week or so ago!)... then appear to have solved it by changing the Z order.

The frame around my 'header' item has been moved to the back and in preview it now works. So you might want to try that.

There's still a slight problem as I've put the two 'boxes' in different colours to see what's going on and selected a width of 3. It then clearly shows that the bottom edge of the uppermost box shows below the top edge of the bottom box. But, switching off the grid facility and gently dragging the object seems to fix that too. It may not be perfect but perhaps it will be OK?

I'm just a new learner at this ... some of the excellent experts on here may have another remedy - but it seems to work.

(I'm using 2.7 and haven't yet upgraded - which version are you using?)

mccifa

Do you have the project file backed up on the site, and if so, can you post the project ims filename? I think there are a few issues that are effecting the layout. One looks like positioning. The other is probably that some of your objects are being re-rendered and/or anti-aliased, which is adding a border around some object when published.

I also saw that you have used the Arial Narrow font on at least one page. While most windows systems will have this one, it is not a web safe font.

I hope your group finds a way to save the Mayport ferry. I have fond memories of riding it quite often when I was a kid.

Hi All, Thanks for the input! - I hadn't considered Z order or the anti-aliasing and re-render factors, Hmmm... I am actually rebuilding it with a template - meaning I am setting up a template page with includes for all pages - so in doing that I will re read the help files on these subjects and keep them in mind - what I am thinking is if those things happen again I will post back here. Because if any of those things were the causes then it won't be a bug after all. I did not back up the file on my server yet that was the first test preview.

When you say back up the ims project file -- creating an ims file on my host - I am not sure I know what that means so I need to study up on that too. If the problem returns I will do that as well before I repost.

larryd - Wow that is very cool that you appreciate the ferry and rode on it often. I live right down the road from it and it is a vital access to the main barrier island road that otherwise only has two accesses that are over thirty miles apart. I don't know who advised our governor this was a turkey project that didn't need funding - but who ever it was -- they were the turkey! lol Thanks I'll let you know how it goes.

You are using horizontal page centering.

If you want objects to line up exactly, clearly the x co-ordinates must be the same. You have probably been doing that.

What is not so obvious is that the widths of those objects must also be exactly the same. Because of the horizontal page centering, a different width will cause the x-coordinate to be different when viewed in the browser.

Another factor to watch out for, (I didn't see it on your index page) is to make sure you don't accidentally have relative positioning or sizing on (buttons on the bottom toolbar).

Also, it does no harm to keep the objects exactly centered on your workpage

Your project file should be auto backed up to your site when you publish your project with SiteSpinner. If you tell us the name of your project file, we should be able to download it from there.

Thanks for all of the input.

I removed common elements and rebuilt the template being sure the includes rendering and xyz positions were correct and visiting the link above you can see on the first couple of pages it seems to have corrected the problem. I will now be continuing to add the page outline to all pages and hopefully it will remain in tact. I think there were several issues going on.

BUT in my removing all of the common elements I was hitting control and grouping to remove the buttons and so forth at once and continually had a program shut down with the Microsoft error panel coming up. I checked and Microsoft seemed to indicate there was a file of this error stored on my computer somewhere. The only way I got around this was to hit save after removing things on each page before I went to the next page otherwise it happened about a half a dozen times before I figured out this would work. This may be a true bug to report. Does anyone know where that file might be stored because using search I couldn't find it on my computer using a d123 portion of the reference in the file. They abbreviated it so much I couldn't tell but documents and local were in the reference.

And one more question - so when you indicate an item to include on all pages and then remove it from the base page I notice it does not remove itself from all pages it was included on - is there any way to do this?

Thanks again

hmm as soon as I hit close I realized that you can use the include menu to checkmark the pages the item has been included on and select to delete from those pages. Is that right? Thanks again but if anyone knows where I can look for that error file and I find it I will post here.

The shutting down problem seems like a bug. First thing to do is make sure you have the latest version of SS -- Ver.2.70f.

I've got a feeling the Microsoft error report will be of no use, so I wouldn't bother looking for it -- and I don't know where it is stored anyway

If you can tell us the name of your project file, if backed up to your site, we may be able to re-create the bug from that.

You're right about the include menu -- you can use that to add or remove the include from any page. While editing, to remove an include from just one page, use the "cut" edit command. Not "delete" as that will remove it from all pages

Hi Brucee - The problems with that is one -- I don't see any back up files on my server and two I had made so many changes that were not published prior to this step, what is online if it is there (But I can't find it) wouldn't be the same -- would that matter? and I have web protect on and I have to have it as I get hundreds of theifs trying to steal things every week -- so for someone to download a file without me scheduling for it - hmm I'm not sure how that would work?

I was grouping buttons and backgrouds each time it happened .. Let me know what you think and I will take another look in the server but I looked pretty well ..

Ooops I found it - I was looking outside of the folder it was in and I forgot site spinner does not clean off old versions when it publishes like my other frequently used software

here is the file that would be closest to how it was before that happened

http://www.inspirationmotivation.com/ferry/Save%20the%20Ferry%2077777.ims

Let me know when you have it so I can remove that and other old versions off of the site.

Thanks -- I've downloaded your project and opened it successfully.

I don't think you need to worry about anyone stealing your project file. The file might be useful to a SiteSpinner person but what could they use it for? There are no images in the file. A non-SiteSpinner thief, and anyone who wants your images would go to your html pages, which are equally vulnerable.

Now that I have got your project file, what sequence of steps should I try to create a crash?

Hello, Yes this particular area, that is now going off here and onto its own server, I would guess no one would probably want. lol - There will be more images very soon BTW, :-)

I don't log what people are trying to steal off of my base site but the most frequently hit page is the redirect that they get when they try to hotlink and it's in the high hundreds every week.

So, on that project file that you downloaded -- does it have my log in and password information?? I guess that is what I am worried about as well.

Anyway thanks for taking a look. I decided to remove all of the top header objects - page outline object - (black bar) - and then started on the left blue button field area including buttons. Starting at the top of that section I clicked control and began grouping the buttons from top to bottom and occasionally got the blue field in there. I did one or two without incident but then it began causing the error/shut down. Of course then what ever I had done and hadn't saved - which was a lot because I didn't think of saving during this phase - had to be removed again. It was always in the grouping of the buttons on the left and clicking cut. I don't recall if I was cleaning components along the way or not. Once I began saving after each page it ceased to shut down during the process.

Thats all I can remember about it.

Another bug I thought I found and it drove me nuts - was that in the text fields on say - the local government and state government pages - where all of the names and addys are - When I would select the header line to be bold and leave the rest blank. It would not take this setting and every time it would still leave the top line in regular text. Even when the text would indicate it was bold - IE the bold button was pushed in - it would still look regular. Sometimes other lines would show up as regular text and look bold and I would highlight it and click bold and then it would shrink to regular text. Thats the opposite of what You would expect. Finally I resolved it by bolding the entire sections and then saving and closing. Then upon reopening the text field I would deselect bold from the areas I wanted to show as regular and the bold headers remained. So you might want to play around with those fields, removing the bold from the top and then seeing if you can by clicking it back to bold get it to stay that way or create text fields with text and a link in the header similar to what is there - to see if you can recreate that as well. I had that happen on several pages although those are the only two I can really recall for sure. Some of it was cut and paste text that had been in different fonts and those had been changed as well prior to the problem.


Happy bug hunting - if they are out there I hope that you find them!

Thanks again.

Thanks for the extra info -- there's something there for me to play with when I get bored

I think the bolding change issue with your text is a problem we have seen before -- it happens with font and color changes too. I don't know that anybody has ever pinned it down though

Rest easy about your password and login details -- they are not stored in your project file. They are stored in your ftppro.ini file, so be careful who you give that file to

Hi Brucee, Thats good to know about the ini file. The text bug may be a real consideration in my decision whether to use spinner for a large site remake because so much of it is textural with bolding to differenciate sections. I was about to give up on it due to that bug for this project and if I hadn't already had so much of it done I might have. Now that I figured out the make everything bold and change what you don't want trick that helps but its just an extra time consuming step especially when ther are several bold lines an a lengthy text field.

I am really happy with how the site looks and loads though now that it is first phase completed. I put it on its own site at http://savetheferry.org if you want to see how it turned out. (So far) There are a lot of things I like about Site Spinner and I guess no program is ever perfect.

Thanks again for all of the help. I will be interested to know if you are able to duplicate the error and if it's fixable.

I haven't forgotten this. I have been able to induce a crash once, by grouping and cutting menu items, but nothing I can easily recreate as yet.

I have noticed that after some multiple selects and cuts, multiple select refuses to work any more. This may be related to the crash problem, but again so far nothing consistent.

Hi Brucee,

Thanks for the update, I have not had to use that cut and paste feature any more than briefly such as I was in the design stage. So I haven't had the problem again either and I haven't had a moment of spare time to play with it. Having added this site to my plate unexpectedly its all that I can do to keep it maintained. I am glad you are still looking into it.

I have had repeated problems updating text fields - with the bold problem previously mentioned and also with having the links get messed up some how and show the HTML code even when I cut retype and paste the link back in to a new word. This happens repeatedly in those govt contact areas and it is very frustrating. tonight it took me almost twenty minutes of doing it over and over and making new text fields and starting over to make one little name change related to a link. I know I am doing it correctly because sometimes it goes along smoothly as it should and then all of a sudden it seems like it gets a glitch and then keeps it no matter what you do. This happened previously as well but I don't recall if I mentioned it.

Other than that I have received several compliments from some pretty important people in the city about the site. If only these things could be fixed I would say that the program would be MORE than wonderful. :-)

Remember I was grouping those left border area objects from page to page every time it happened - is that what you were doing?

Oh ps THE NEW LOCATION of the site is at http://savetheferry.org if you want to see how it has evolved.

I have isolated the bug(s) into two separate small projects. They may be two separate bugs or two faces of the same bug. There may be others too, but I haven't looked into those yet.

Bug 1 -- the Crash. The project File is here. The instructions to recreate the crash are on page2 of the project. They involve making a multiple cut from page 2, then the crash occurs when you click on page 1. Of interest is the blue rectangle. At one stage it was an 'include' on both pages, but isn't any more. This same blue rectangle features in Bug 2.

The exact steps are important, If you deviate, even in a small way from those described, the crash may not happen. If you can't recreate the crash, try closing the project, reopening then starting again from the beginning.

Bug 2 -- an Include problem. The project File is here. The instructions to recreate the problem are on page2 of the project. They involve cutting the blue rectangle which is an 'include' on both pages, together with another object from page2. When you check the index page, the blue rectangle has been cut from there instead -- but no actual cut turns out to have been made from page2.

Thanks to SafariWoman for these bugs. Without her help, and persistence in the face of considerable frustration, we would not have uncovered them.

You mean for once it wasn't just me that screwed up?? WOOHOO!!

Brucee - that kind of investigation takes so much patience. Thanks to you too for actually defining it. I am glad to help and thanks for all of the help I have found in here as well.

There is so much to like about VM - yet the bugs can at times completely discourage me from using it. The text bug that you previously mentioned still has me gritting my teeth every time I have to make a change in these areas.

Still, I just committed to building a new web site based on the one this is related to and I hope that I can just take my template for it and run with it as fast as VM will let me go. lol

GOOD JOB BRUCEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL Oh my gosh, I just noticed that you referred to it as the "SafariWoman bug" I've never had a bug named after me before! Too funny and umm -- I'm honored! ((??)) lol

Thanks again Brucee- and I must say, VM gets a 10 on the forum help score! At least in my book.

Thanks Bruceee! It's a joy to see such a beautifully constructed crash. As always, we really appreciate your deconstruction and analysis. And thanks SafariWoman for your persistence and patience. We will find out what is going wrong.

Regarding the problem you reported when applying 'bold' to text, I think this may be what you are seeing:

If you select text that contains both bold and non-bold text (call it a 'mixed selection'), The bold button reflects the bold state of the text at the place where you first started selecting the text (even if that is a space character where you can't see the boldness)

Now, when you click the bold button on a mixed selection, the whole selection is always made bold the first time, regardless of the button state. If you click a second time the text is all made non-bold.

The bug in this situation appears to be that the bold button always switches 'off' if it was 'on' when you selected the text, even though all the text is now bold. If you click the bold button again, the text goes non-bold but the button goes bold. That is, both the text and the the button reverse state on each click but the button started at 'on'

It does the same thing when the button is 'off' after selecting mixed text but that case appears normal because both the text and the button are set to bold at the same time.

So ... the workaround for now is to remember, that for mixed selections, the style is always applied to the selection on the first click no matter what the button says. That is, in this case, judge the correct state by the actual text not by the button.

Let me know if that is not the same problem that you were seeing.