Hi All

Since Bruceee has persuaded me tp update to the current WD version I can't resist but to have a 'dig' at it already lol.

Not really a 'Bug' but ....

The current version can still not 'cope' with optimized animations (gifs) I was hoping this would have been one of the things that was changed, sadly not.

Not ALL optimized gifs are effected just some. Basically instead of showing the animation as it should be in it's full size WD will display it (also in browser) using it's smallest optimized frame size. In other words distort the animation.

What I have to do to get round it is just to measure the size of the correct gif and resize the 'duff' gif in WD to the correct size. Obviously it will then look awful in WD but ok when published.

This is no big deal for the odd gif but when like me you are working with thousands of them it gets very tedious and slows you down hugely.

I appreciate that ani. gifs can be very complex to work with and all ani gif software optimizes them differently which must make it very difficult for VM, but if you could fix this I would be VERY happy

My understanding is that if WD or SS has to re-render an animated gif, it does only the first frame and so loses the animation. So if you want to keep the animation, don't do anything that will cause a re-render (like change size or color).

You have an animated gif on your WD page.

You change the source image file in some way, perhaps making it slightly smaller or larger.

Is that when your problem occurs? If so, you are probably asking that when re-rendering, WD and SS should render all frames and not just the first. Maybe?

This easiest way to explain this I think is with a 'demo'

The link shows 3 gifs that WD 'messes', what they look like and what they should look like.

I have put in 2 screenshots from my animation software and I have highlighted the optimized part of the frames in pink.The square box around the animation is the Actual gif size and is the size that WD should be showing

You say I have a gif on my page, I can Always use all gifs in WD I just have to spend time resizing them manually so that WD displays them correctly in the browser. My Animated gif site has over 3600 ani gifs, of those probably 10-15% I have to resize.

As I said this does NOT happen on all optimized ani gifs, it seems to depends on the software that optimized them and how the gifs were put together.

The reason I mentioned this is because I am re doing my ani gif site in a bigger resolution. Theres rather a lot of work and was was just hoping that this version of WD would be ok with them and save me some time !

Regards
Andy

Nearly forgot again....Optimized Ani gif Examples

Also these ones do not look to bad.If you have a highly optimized gif the animation can litterly dissapear !

I've read this thread several times and I'm still not sure I've got it right.

I tried putting your pot, email146.gif on a fresh page. Windows Explorer, reports the size of the image after I saved it from your page as 132x132. What does your animation software report the size as?

When I Edit > Paste into a Web Dwarf or a SiteSpinner workpage, the Quick Editor shows the size as 62x87.

In Web Dwarf, the workpage view of the image is slightly bigger than the "correct" size. In SiteSpinner, the workpage view of the image is much smaller than the correct size. Looks like 62x87.

In preview in both Web Dwarf and SiteSpinner, the image is also much smaller than the correct size. Looks like 62x87 again.

So the crux of the problem is that in preview, both Web Dwarf and SiteSpinner set the code to display the image at much smaller than its true size. They set it to 62x87 instead of 132x132.

Does that match how you see the problem?

Hi Bruceee

Spot on with all comments and measurements.

The only thing I will say is that you mention in 'preview' it's affected but of course it's also affected when published ;-)
(UNless it's resized to the correct measurements !)

Also I said about 10% of my ani gifs are affected, I just re did my 'horror' section and it was more like 35-40%. Drove me 'crackers' as you just have to keep opening up the animation twice, once in WD, then in my ani software to get the correct measurements to resize it !!

I've put up with it for over 2 years so it's not to much of a problem but it would be very nice to have it sorted in any later updates :-)

Regards
Andy

What do you think the size of the pot image is supposed to be? Windows says 132x132 -- is that correct?

You are the expert on GIFs here so let me ask you this: There must be some information in the GIF file that says what size it is. Is it possible there is something in there that you are not setting up correctly on your problem images? Why would Web Dwarf decide on 62x87? Is there any frame in there of that exact size?

quote:

What do you think the size of the pot image is supposed to be? Windows says 132x132 -- is that correct?

Yes thats right Bruceee.

quote:

Is it possible there is something in there that you are not setting up correctly on your problem images?

You can resize the (any) ani. to what ever size you want but that is the FULL frame size. If you optimize (or it's already optimized) an ani gif you have NO control/say over the size of the optimized part. It's like a frame in a frame, as I highlighted the difference in the pink images.

So no there is nothing that I can do/adjust to set it up correctly or in this case uncorrectly to get WD to display it differently. I have a few different ani software programs and have tried many more and they are all the same in that respect.

quote:

Why would Web Dwarf decide on 62x87? Is there any frame in there of that exact size?

I had a look into this and found another piece of software that list all the 'internal' gif information.Sorry I couldn't 'get it' as text so I put an image capture with the link above.

As you will see where I have highlighted in red WD is just using the file size of Frame 1 to size the animation, when looking at the information WD SHOULD be looking at the Header Information, where in both cases it clearly states the Correct ani gif size. The list on the right is for the 'blood drip' animation.

I am going to email the Software designer of my ani Software that I use daily for his opinion on this and what WD should be doing.

Also I would just mention again Bruceee that this 'problem' isn't just with gif's that I have altered in one particular program but totally different gifs form all over that many I have never touched.

I hope some of that may have helped a bit.

Best regards
Andy

What about GIFs that don't cause you problems? -- is the first frame size a closer match with the header size? Looks like if you did your animation so that the first frame was the biggest, there wouldn't be a problem. No, I'm not suggesting you change all your animations.

Derry or Harpo -- if you are reading this, can you confirm WD/SS is using the size of the first frame to work out the size of the image? Are there any "implications" in changing to use the size as reported in the header?

quote:

What about GIFs that don't cause you problems? -- is the first frame size a closer match with the header size?

I had a look at quite a few different ani gifs that cause no problem (Inc. optimized ones) and the first frame size is Always the largest (The correct animation size) and the 'Header' Always displays this exact size (Again the correct size).
So yes it looks like (using a VERY small sample !) that WD could read the Header rather than frame 1. If the header was 'duff' then surely WD could use the Frame 1 as a 'back up' Looks a far more accurate way of doing it maybe.

This is the comment form Ron, the designer of my Favourite ani program 'Gif Movie Gear'

quote:

Yeah, the GIF format is two-tiered. There is the "canvas size" and then separate "image size" and an offset (relative to the canvas 0,0) for each of the frames/images.

It sounds like the program is only using the first image's native size, which I guess is valid if you are only editing that image. It's a tricky thing.

ron

A good way of putting it, so I (we) are talking about the 'Canvas' size of the ani gif.

quote:

Looks like if you did your animation so that the first frame was the biggest, there wouldn't be a problem.

LOL I see no reason why that wouldn't work, apart from of course taking about 1/2 hour for each animation Thanks for that Bruceee, it's boring enough redoing a site for the third time as it is

Best regards
Andy

Is there anyone apart from Brucee that replies to posts anymore ?

Or is it that the team are working so hard to fix this they havn't the time to respond, hmmmmm

Anyway I just came acroos this today, I forgot that WD does this with some Ani gifs. This IS a bug ;-)

If you go to my above link and look at the bottom of the page there is a link to zip file with an ani gif in it. This gif imediatley freezes WD solid, you only have to click on it once from 'mona lisa' and your 'finished' !

This gif works 100% OK in Ms viewer, Irfanview and anything else etc....

This gif is UNoptimized, if I optimize it then it won't crash WD.I have looked at the file and header info of the gif and it looks fine to me.

This is a strange one, happens VERY rarely, but when it does you obviously loose all your work :-(

Would be interesting Bruceee to see if it has the same effect on your pc or in SP. I did have this in my old pc on w98 though so I'm sure it will.

Regards
Andy

Doesn't anyone apart from Bruceee reply to posts anymore ? Or are you all hard at work fixing this ? Hmmmmm, If you are I have another BUG for you :-)

I forgot at this one , it happens very rarely but when it does you loose all your work :-(

If you go to my above link and look at the bottom of the page there is a link to a zip file with an ani. gif that imediately FREEZES WD solid as soon as you just click on it once from 'mona lisa'

This gif works 100% ok in MS Viewer, Irfanview and anything else, well apart from WD.

It is UNoptimized, if I optimize it then it will be ok in WD. It's a very strange one, I did look at the file details and they all look fine to me.

It would be interesting Bruceee to see if it freezes up SP as well. Once clicked on I have to shut down WD by the taskmanager.

Regards
Andy

It looks like a canvas size vs image size problem, and may be a bug. We will confirm and test the file that crashes (could be the same issue). We'll let you know what we find.

At the present time our focus is on getting Web Engine V2 complete. Once that that is released, we'll be able to turn our attention to a WebDwarf update.

Hi Derry

Thanks for that, nice to know your all still keeping an eye on things

Sorry to have disturbed your hard work.

Best regards
Andy

Another great bug we can credit to Andy! The animated gif, p102.gif also locks up SiteSpinner V2.70c.

The gif looks fine in another image viewer, PicaView, and the animation works.

quote:

Another great bug we can credit to Andy!

lol

I'm sure 'bug finding' in pc programs is probably my vocation in life. I don't think theres a single piece of software out there that I couldn't crash !

But now is that a good or a bad thing ........ ?

End of this posting, at long last I think, off to find another one.

Kind regards
Andy

Update: This bug was fixed in SiteSpinner version 2.70d.