Hello,

I guess this is mainly for Derry, Harpo, Emma, Peter and you also Brucee.

I have been on the go for many, many hours --- and still have a full day ahead of me, so in all probability there will be a follow-up to this to clean up any loose ends.

This is an incomplete work; and will remain so. There were to be a least two structures added and possibly some animation; but I can see already that, lacking texture, it is not going to work out the way I had hoped.

http://members.shaw.ca/rcswebby/hallowha.html

I have so many hot irons in the fire right now, over half involving writing, that I am not quite certain of my priorities at this precise moment. But what I am now certain of is that my days of "pioneering" SVG within the VM forum (or anywhere else for that matter) are now over for the forseeable future. Time spent on that endeavour, now apparently now fruitless, is simply without question needed elsewhere.

As to what constitutes the "forseeable future," I would have to say until such time as I see a more determined effort by others who shall go nameless to make this marvelous tool a practical reality. In truth I put something together in the "Gimp" tonight in less than an hour, and in Real Draw Pro in half an hour, which both were more intertesting than the above link.

Your candid assessment was much appreciated, Bruceee, and pretty well fits with most of the evidence I have gleaned indirectly. My tenure in this forum has most definitely been a controversial one; but that in the final analysis is here nor there. As I stated elsewhere, I needed no help in either discovering SVG or its merits and I fail to see why any one else should who possesses even a modicum of initiative. Whatever its operational difficulties, and they are truly minor, SVG is a superior graphics tool to HTML. Had they both arrived on the scene simultaneously, I seriously doubt that anyone would be using HTML today, a tool which survives by virtue of a plethora of scripting languages.

But reality is what it is---the Law of Existence and the Law of Identity as per Aristotle---and one who ignores these axioms is indeed a fool. And whatever derogatory attributes I care to attach to myself from time to time; I don't but on a few days of the year regard myself as a fool.

I will continue to use SVG, but now at my own pace and in my own peculiar style. Any HTML work I do will be hand-coded. As a would be writer I am quite intrigued over reports I keep stumbling over that Adobe either have or plan to make SVG an integral part of the Adobe Acrobat Reader or a close relative thereof. In the meantime I now turn my attention to the arena of mathematical documentation and as mentioned, writing a book report and rebuilding my home site to be rename "Image and Word."

It is now apparent that there is truly no such thing for me as "leaving" this forum, but it is clearly time to follow D_L and pursure other adventures.

To those of you on the list at the start I offer my profound thanks for teaching me much about what has turned out to be several arenas of life, not just the technical one.

All the very best to you all,
Cheers,

Derry,

Here is the loose end. I would have no difficulty whatsoever in compiling a fairly lengthy list of first-rate programs trying to break into the internet market just as .svg is,but whose format lacks universal support.

These programs give you the option of saving your work in their native format, layers preserved etc., but in addition offer a .png or .jpg output. This is one highly effective means of promoting their product with potential long term dividends for their format --- one such format being .svg.. In addition to that, some of the most original and creative work in image massage is in fact being done with .jpg and .png files, Image Analyzer and EasyPeg being two prime examples.

I suggested this option be made available in Web Engine in Feature Requests and received a response that in essence was pure mockery. It was also a response which runs along a fine border shading into hypocrisy for what I think are obvious reasons. THAT is why I went public with my list of programs with which I create .jpg files which in turn are used to enhance the output of Web Engine. I was rubbing your nose in it. Not nice; but you asked for it.

As the saying goes: SVG is dead. Long live SVG.

Muzz,

Two things can happen to SVG:

It will fade away into oblivion

It will really catch on as more of us pagans see the light.

Either way, thank you for your pioneering efforts. Good luck with the adventures, and come back to see us from time to time.

Cheers
Bruceee

Hello Muzz ..

I've been pursuing a venture .. as you've guessed .. but pop back here from time to time.

lots of water under the bridge since the early discussions .. your "tool kit" is nicely used.

now the challenge is to apply SVG to earn some bucks .. good luck ..

currently looking at SVG for visualisation .. remember aisee.com ??

D_L

Hi Bruceee,

Well, firstly, let me thank you for your kind and supportative words. I didn't take them as a mere formality.

Second, as a minor correction, the pioneer hasn't really retired; he has just gone more or less private. I set out to eat about seven hours ago. Then, by pure accident, I made an absolutely mind boggling discovery about something which you can do with SVG and haven't left my desk since. It is literally going to revolutionize certain aspects of my work.

Third, and as a third possibility which currently holds the high ground, SVG will become a niche tool --- a likelihood which D_L foresaw quite some time ago. ....hence my thoughts about a .jpg option.

Fourth, I share your basic views on animation. I have long held the position that if the page demands motion, then use it; but truly meaningful uses for it are few and far between. I enjoy what is known in art as dynamic tension far more. In summary, it requires much work for few dividends unless motion is literally integral to the theme. With the rise of the capability of actually making videos, I suspect that animation is going to have a short half life.

You write well Bruceee, so I have sneaking suspicions that your artistic talents run deeper than you are willing to admit publicly. I have no artistic talent whatsoever; simply an understanding of Euclid, analytic geometry, scalable vector fields, colour, and perspective (almost). Try work with secondary colours as they blend better; and master the little box in the shading editor and you will go far.

Cheers and best wishes,

Well blow my socks off ,,,, which is probably not a bad idea!

Hi D_L, ...how in the heck are you?

Absolutely every time I look at the plugins which are available for HTML Kit, and see "smil" and "php," that defines the minimum number of times you come to mind.

I have kind of put Sodipodi to the side now that I have discovered the Gimp. It is much better supported, stable, and intuitive. Yes indeed, my toolkit is bulging. The one major item I am after now is MathType. It is VERY good, and only about 1/4 the cost of Mathematica.

SVG remains my core tool but I now regard the .jpg file as a necessary adjunct to working with .svg files. I am categorically not pointing fingers here; but a fair number of folk have an absolutely Neanderthal attitude towards .jpg files. The value to me of SVG just went up several notches on an exponential squared curve, but when I reveal it as I surely will, it will be to folk who actually give a hoot. It is really neat D_L with far reaching implications.

I am very happy that all is well with you.

May our paths cross again sooner than later,

Cheers,

Two can play "stonewall," Derry.

Muzz ..

we continue to have common threads of thought .. I'm researching how to present Mathematical Equations and various outputs (time series) via SVG ..

I've been looking at WebMathematica

http://www.wolfram.com/products/webmathematica/index.html

Mathtype and MathML look promising .. probably not as powerful as Mathematica though ..

http://www.econtentmag.com/Articles/ArticlePrint.aspx?ArticleID=5035

MathML at http://www.mathtype.com

http://www.dessci.com/en/reference/white_papers/mt_mathml.htm

SVG/XML is truly the mathematical visualisation medium ..

D_L

Hi D_L,

Mathtype was a difficult "find." I downloaded the 30 day evaluation and liked it. It covered pretty much everything I need at this point in time. I am working on a software documentation project which, in part, especially Fourier Transform theory and Deconvolution, calls heavily on my Geophysics background. I plan to use PDF995 as the main documentation tool. How well it will integrate with Mathtype when I eventually purchase it remains to be seen.

Time Series (Sequence) Analysis has been a life-long passion of mine. I can actually claim to have Norbert Weiner's book on the subject, but I make no claims of anything close to a comprehensive understanding of it all. Sampling theorems fascinate me; and anyone who blindly re-sizes an image and assumes that they are getting an optimum result is living in a fool's paradise. You would think that the "sinc" function would be the ideal interpolation function, but that is only true in the fictious world of infinte length operators.

A recent discovery is "wavelet" theory as in Haar Transforms or Hat Transforms. It's usefulness is controversial, but it would seem to be especially relevant to "sparse" data sequences.

I assume by "visualization" you mean "the presentation of a "time series" (or whatever) on a computer monitor screen, presumably in SVG?? Is that correct?

Back to exploring my new toy. Lordy murphy I am busy.

Cheers,

Bruceee and D_L,

Why not end things on a positive note. I may or may not drop in occasionally Bruceee, but I am also well aware that VM would be more than happy to see the last of me.

Other than to say that I have long known how to create the illusion of depth with SVG --- making you think that you can see six inches into your monitor --- I have, until tonight, never been able to create the converse effect. This is the only example which I have uploaded, and it only shows the effect in a small sample so it isn't going to dazzle you, but I challenge you to try create it!!!

http://members.shaw.ca/rrsknox/kfcontcp.html

Life is good,
RC

You did ask for some animation Bruceee: You'll need earphones too. "Theme From Exodus."

Thanks Muzz,

The animation I really wanted to see was of that unsupported brickwork falling down

Nice one. It's all magic to me -- even how you turned the "Theme From Exodus" into something suspiciously like Mozart

All the best,
Bruceee