Hello,

This is a work in progress. The cross is from R.D, I.A, E.P. and converted to .jpg. All of the rest is Web Engine SVG. The cross was converted to 3D in Image Analyzer. Final Edition later this week???

Belated Happy Easter.

Straight SVG: http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/coneupva.svg
Embedded SVG: http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/coneupha.html

I plan to convert the entire page to 3D. NOTE: There is no animation, but, because of some animation tests, a .js file was sent up to the server when I published.

Cheers,

Hi Muzz,

The SVG page is not displaying on my end, the html one does however - nice effect!

Hi Derry,

Thanks, but in truth it is not an effort I am particularly happy with. Here is the story.

http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/coneuphb.html
embedded svg: 800x600 f11 web engine

My goal was, and is, to see whether or not I could emulate with SVG the .gif file polished into a .jpg file as shown in the bottom left corner. It is indeed a challenge.

I see no reason in making a big secret out of the fact that that I also work with Real Draw Pro and Ace Design Pro. The results I obtain there are converted either into .jpg or .png files, perhaps modified in one of Image Analyzer, EasyPeg, Makaha, XnView, IrFan, DeKnop, PicPerk, JPEGWizard, Jpeggar, etc., and imported back into Web Engine.

The cross was created with the latter set of programs and then simply stuck into the evolving cone (made semi-transparent) as an experiment. It was the sentiment which mattered.

I learned a great deal both doing Knox and in later thinking about revisions. Pages which are nothing more than a colourful background with picturess stuck on, no matter how attractive, have to go. That sort of work is child's play and certainly does no justice to the potential of SVG.

To regard SVG as a two-dimensional tool is not only to fail to understand linear perspective; it is also to fail to understand the nature of vectors. Right now I am simply exploring the tool while I attend to my writing obligations. But when I get serious about it again, the creation of space (depth) with SVG will be my primary goal. Without necessarily endorsing what is currently being created in 3D digital art, it is that sort of work which inspires me to pursue this whole general field in a truly comprehensive manner.

That is why I usually say, "Judge this not for what it is, but rather for the potential it reveals."

Cheers,

Hello,

A theme is finally slowly evolving out of this. Most importantly, though I haven't worked out all of the kinks, I think that a dim light is flashing on and off saying "This is the road to contour maps with perspective."

The sequence starts in coneuphb.html in the above post, and at the time of this posting has proceeded to coneuphd.html. As you might guess, it is an exercise, not a project.

The large ellipitical contour which appears as is it is on the bottom is actually on top; and the small one on top is at the bottom.

Cheers,
Muzz

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Muzz,

Hi Derry and Harpo,

First, the bit above about the order of the pile is nonsense. That is how I stacked them; not how they sit.

Re the e:mail --- I am still having Preview problems with the GIMP. It is obviously solvable by deletion; but I would rather find out just what in the blazes is going on.

By changing the GIMP .png file to a .jpg file and eliminating the fence, I have managed to get "coneuphe" to publish as "coneuphf." That was bad science as I changed both items simultaneously. In any case, Opera has been rendered inoperable and it is without a word of exaggeration all out war with XX right now. I may have to depart from the world of graphics and concentrate on writing until I once again return to XP in a few months.

Cheers,

Not your average mushrooms methinks. Some people actually call this art and pay big bucks for it. The more I ponder it, all the debate about Flash vs SVG is somewhat misdirected. I am beginning to see all these various formats as a means to .jpg files to which you can truly do wondrous things.

It is certainly garish; but if there is a point, absolutely nothing came out of a clip-art can. Other than making use of ready to use mathematical-geometrical functions, it was simply rc and the white rabbit. No patterns were used.

Now for the grand finale and then off to 3D land.

Cheers

Hi Muzz,

Glad to know you are still an SVG convert. We believe SVG has a bright future (unlike some).

I'll say it for you, Derry. From the opening insult to the great relief of the concluding sentence, David Emberton's article ranks as the work of a mind better fit to mingle in the ranks of lower-rank coistrels than objective, insightful, journalists. He would appear to be but a flash in the pan with a rather vested interest in writing as an obnoxious hack who obviously would have condemned Gutenberg for the invention of movable type---that creation leading as it did to standardization and thus affordable books for all. It is not an article worthy of a rebuttal, and, upon reflection, does SVG a big favour: What a fool turneth away from is always worthy of a thoughtful evaluation.

I Couldn't have said it better.

Hi Derry,.

Having said that, and being in general on the warpath, I pose you with a question. You should be able to view .svg directly with Opera if you use extension instead of mime. In any case:

http://members.shaw.ca/rrsknox/kscontcp.svg
http://members.shaw.ca/rrsknox/khcontcp.html

This could be classified an a pure SVG page given that in was constructed in SVG mode, there were no imports, and the fonts (except for the links) are path converted. Now, the question is, how do you classify these wherein I have imported a .jpg texture via the Shading Editor as backgrounds to the upper and lower title? [Lousy is not an answer ]

http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/kscontcp.svg
http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/khcontcp.html

I truly do not how to make clear the point of my question. It seems to one of those things where either you "get it" almost instaneously or you never do. But try this; what in the blazes other than as a very general signpost has the extension of your file got to do with its structure, artistic mode of expression, typography, content, purpose and a host of other factors. It in fact tells you nothing whatsoever more than does the sign "Toronto." (And just where exactly is "Smokey Joe's Cafe?")

I am in the "Image and Word" business, and having travelled down the .html route already in another life, sit in utter disbelief that so many people do not understand just how efficacious SVG is as a means to virtually any desired end under my general heading. The ultimate image files for purpose of storage (and manipulation) are .jpg and .png. Thus Web Engine is the Orchestra Leader and General Contractor. SVG is used either entirely or as a means of creating a spatial framework to be infilled with textues which can't be created in SVG. For that purpose I use Real Draw Pro or the Gimp or whatever, create a file in the programs native format, and then export it as a .png or .jpg file to be imported via Web Engine into the given SVG-created structure. Now is this SVG or not???

I say that it IS for all I have done is replace the scalar field with a different one. The vector structure remains the same. Does an SVG object have to have its scalar field ordained by the Windows colour palatte to be an SVG object? Of course not. Thus this, which I see some genuine potential in, is an SVG page, meaning a page constructed in vector format and infilled with variable scalar fields.

http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/coneuphg.html

There are those who create a Renaissance; those who sustain and expand it; and those who just never get the idea at all. So says History.

Derry, to say that I am still an SVG convert is akin to saying, "I see that you are still breathing air." I gave up my gills two years ago, and, however rough the journey, have not a single regret. But in conclusion, I will make this clear: It is about a dozen and half people outside of this forum (apart form thee the mods.) who have made the journey truly worth while.

Cheers,

Derry,

There is a small ethical issue here so this shall not remain on line long.

http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/parchtha.html

If this doesn't, as a general challenge, bring out the best svg has to offer then I don't know what does. The creation of such a piece requires much knowledge of perpsective.

And with that I just plain shut-up. I am wasting my time, and obviously yours. I may not fully comprehend what in the he** the W3C had to say about scalable vector graphics; but I do know what a whole body of writing in mathematical physics has to say about the subject; and, frankly, that is my true guuide. Hi D_L.



Adieu,

Hi Muzz,

Looks good to me, as always.

Hi Muzz,

Magnificent, and I'm not a religious man

This is your best yet -- and I usually download your pages -- even though for me on dial-up modem, they take a while.

The brickwork looks very realistic. And I suppose it would be physically possible to make that center upside-down pedestal with reinforcing hidden inside. I've just looked at it again and it still hasn't fallen down. Where's the animation?

Cheers
Bruceee

(A) I just hit the wrong key and lost my entire response. Just let it be noted that the work was cripped from Web Shots and that it is my intention to emulate it in Vector Graphics with whatever scalar fields are necessary.

(B) I am in the process of setting up a "hybrid" dual boot Linux/Windows system.
Sorry, I can't elaborate, or rather won't in print.

(C) My aim in presenting the above was to (1) clarify my own artistic goals and what I believe to be the potential of SVG as supplemented by .jpg files. (2) explain my fascination with perspective. I do not intend to "trace" the above work.

(D) A business opportunity, so utterly obvious as to be obscure, hit me tonight. I see a brick highway, Derry.

(E) THIS is the opening to my very first home site. There are dead-ends all over the place; and I intend to re-work it from the ground up, and some of the writing is outright brutual; but I do miss the hand-coding.

http://members.shaw.ca/rcslexical/home.html

Thanks Bruceee and Derry just the same.

Cheers,

Hi Derry and Bruceee and all who may be interested,

Murphy only knows that I may be killing a fossil; but once and for all I want certain notions absolutely straight in anyone's mind who should remotely care.

That I am fascinated by SVG is starting from the obvious, but this is going to be "rigorous." ( ) Why? I certainly don't claim that it is for absolutely everyone; only almost absolutely everyone. And that is a statement pointed directly at the graphics compnent of, for instance, web-site building. HTML was never specifically intended as a graphics tool which is why SVG was created; making very simple a story that was unlikely quite that way.

My interest in SVG was tweaked by the fact that Vectors and Scalars comprised the guts of the central theories of Physics up until the late 19th century whatever other tools were available as alternatives. In short, the world of our visible perception is virtually entirely measurable and thus describable and thus capable of being "selectively re-portrayed" (what art essentially is) in terms of scalars and vectors; or scalar fields and vector fields. Vector graphics, though it may be rendered mathematcally in matrix form, is thus in my never humble eyes as close to the perfect tool for computer graphics as you could want.

The subject of scalar fields, however, is for some reason sort of silently a touchy one: if you have "borrowed" pre-canned goods made by someone else to use as a component of your artistic expression as in the use of .jpg and .png and .gif files, then there is somewhat of a black cloud hanging over your work concerning the originality of your artistic expression.. ....Well, there is a certain truth to that

Accordingly, unless for reasons of histroical necessity, I do not use pre-canned .jpg files any longer; I make my own. That is where my use of the Gimp, Sodipodi, Real Draw Pro, and Ace Design Pro come in. I start with a blank page and output a .jpg file which then I often take into one of several other programs for further massaging. As far as I am concerned; a scalar field is a scalar field whether it is textured or not; and non-textured work makes it very difficult at times to achieve the desired. artistic result.

Here is a sample of something put together very quickly stricly for puroses here. It is hopefully adequate for illustrating my point. The end result is entered onto the SVG page; not directly, but rather throug the stretch feature in the shading editor. Being bound by SVG created path vectors make such a "stetch" entry a bona fide scalar field.

A personal message to Derry and Brucee and ..... is included.
embedded SVG: 800x600 f11
http://members.shaw.ca/thraxpaladin/cliponha.html

Cheers,

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Muzz,

You have an 'interesting perspective' on perspective. Though not sure about the last page that says something about 'Shaw'

Hi Derry,

I you are talking about file size, that was quick and dirty. I'll clean it up later. Believe it or not I am extremely conscientious about file size in production work. I am presently doing a test on embedded fonts via .jpg vs .svg. [And whenever I say .jpg you may assume that I may be talking about .png. Once I get to the .jpg file size along the "creation" path, transparency is usually no longer an issue with me.] But you know, a 400,000 kb .svg file comes down pretty fast.

Derry, I find it hard to believe that the 56K modem is going to dictate the future of the net; especially not with the upper middle class or professional class computer market sitting in the 3.0 GHz. range and climbing daily. Even 10 MB/s Ethernet cable modems are a rarity now; with 10/100 having been routine for several years now. My night-time downloads are usually close to 300 Kb/s and a 16 Mb download is a blink of an eye; and that is with the 500 MHz. machine on a 10 MB. modem. The 1800 Mhz machine on a 10/100 moden often hit around 700 Kb/s; maxing out around 1100 Kb/s. Once you have tasted that, there is no going back, and the expense is over-rated; it is a priority issue not a forbidding issue.

.....You only attempt to be a writer if indeed your perspective on life departs from the norm. Qualifications for manic-depression are very strict.

If You happened to have viewed the above link before about 6:00 pm MDT (8 pm Toronto time) then the the wrong files may have been loaded from the 4th onwards.

Yes, I got a 'Shaw cable' page.