Hi again! Please let me ask another question...
I just noticed a great many people on the net assert that wysiwyg editors are totally nonprofessional and no reputable company would ever think about releasing a homepage made by such programs. They also say wysiwyg editors are useless because they generate "garbage code" which is not compatible with w3c and css (whatever that means).
Now i have no clue about manual html coding. So what do you guys think, it is really "newbie style" to use wysiwyg tools? Thanks in advance for infos!

I don't agree with any of those premises.

While VM products do generate some "garbage code", I don't think it excessive.

Certainly you could spend a lot more time and arrive at code that is "purer", but how valuable is your time?

Just my opinion of course -- from one of the "great many people" who think wysiwyg editors are OK

quote:

no reputable company would ever think about releasing a homepage made by such programs.

This company HERE which uses a wysiwyg program seems to be reputable enough Also check out the W3C validator at the bottom of the page!

quote:

wysiwyg editors are useless

Maybe it's time to rethink that attitude. In a corporate world the content should be (and mostly is) the most important aspect of a presentation and not what tools are used to present it. Using VM products allows non technicians to make those presentations and shifts focus from the technology. You don't have to be an engineer to make a phone call and with user friendly products you don't have to be an engineer to make a professionally looking presentation either. I believe that it is far more important to know how to promote your business.

Klimt has hit the nail squarely on the head.
Content is king, not the tools you use.
Yes, a credible, professional looking site is important, but if it does not hold the visitor's attention,it matters nothing if it is the most lovingly handcrafted effort, or the product of an incredibly powerful tool such as SiteSpinner.
Wysiwig editors give everyone the tools to express themselves without getting into the nuts and bolts of html. Long may they prosper.

quote:

wysiwyg editors are totally nonprofessional and no reputable company would ever think about releasing a homepage made by such programs

Just a question in return, what is a reputable company? We have all seen how professional Enron, Andersen Consulting and, over the years, many other "reputable" companies have acted. Even if they could afford a cost of anything between $1,500-$10,000 to make a "professional" website does not, in my oppinion, make those companies very reputable or credible for that matter. A simple moral and decency of people involved that's what makes a company reputable and credible.

Hello, I got into a "discussion" on one of those techy websites about this very issue. I was defending WYSIWYG editors (specifically SS) and found the attitude from most were very elitist and dismissive about such editors. They felt that if you couldn't or didn't code with 'notepad' with HTML you and your site were not good enough to be on the 'net.

That of course is pure nonsense. The use of the 'net is expanding exponentially and most users are amateurs. Not everyone can be a "professional" coder, site developer or whatever they think you need to be to put a site on the 'net.

Editors such as Site Spinner give power to the masses and that's what they fear the most I think. If the putting of a site on the 'net is made out to be difficult, many people will be forced to pay a "professional" to do it for them. They want to be those paid professionals and keep their numbers small in order to make others go through them.

I did have to agree with them that many sites made by amateurs did not "measure up" to some standards. The design was/is poor. Content is lacking. Slow loading due to too many over sized graphics or animations etc. etc. But all of that can be corrected and learned if the desire is there.

I use SS and am learning many things as I go along. I use many different tools to help me build sites that are comparable to a "professionally built" site. My fave tool is the Web Developer extension for Firefox. I also use vaidators and such to ensure I am building a good clean site.

I may even be getting some work coming my way creating sites for others. This is a goal of mine to have a good sideline business doing something I enjoy. I have bought SS and plan to buy Web Engine soon. In this way I think I am helping ensure that good software as SS/Web Engine continues to be improved.

Yes there is room for improvement in the coding that goes on behind the scenes when we use SS but hey, I don't have to be a HTML pro to build a site either because of it. For that I'm grateful.

Anyone remember DOS? It was pre Windows and it required typing commands EXACTLY correct in order use your computer. I compare Windows and Site Spinner in the same way. It will allow more people to use computers and the Internet in the same ways.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Primal1,

I have been using dreamweaver for about 12months and have found that it is not a wyswig editor like it claims to be...SS is the only editor which thus far in my experience is the only wyswig editor I have tried...beleive me have tried out heaps.Garbage code maybe....but who cares, more impotantly is technique.I have created my site first with dreamweaver and now with SS can't tell any difference when viewing from web....yes I can SS site looks better.

Has anyone ever thought about starting a site spinner or Virtual Mechanics webring if there is not already one? That might help those being turned away from what I consider a great family of products.

By the way there is nothing wrong with being a newbie. That is just the birth of your shown interest to learn something new.

You can bet you would be a newbie a lot longer if the first thing you try creating web pages with is notepad.exe. Start slow grow more later. There is nothing wrong with learning to crawl before you walk and some who use wysiwyg walk quite well I might add anyway so don't sweat it.

Stefan

When you encounter folks that are "programmers" just reply: real programmers write in machine code.Not notepad.Not, even, assembly language.Machine Code.Raw, unadorned, inscrutable hexadecimal numbers.Directly.
Or give them this link
Regards,
misumisu - not a programmer

quote:

Originally posted by Klimt:

quote:

wysiwyg editors are totally nonprofessional and no reputable company would ever think about releasing a homepage made by such programs

Just a question in return, what is a reputable company? We have all seen how professional Enron, Andersen Consulting and, over the years, many other "reputable" companies have acted. Even if they could afford a cost of anything between $1,500-$10,000 to make a "professional" website does not, in my oppinion, make those companies very reputable or credible for that matter. A simple moral and decency of people involved that's what makes a company reputable and credible.

Remember the ark was built by Noah, a farmer, the Titanic was built by professionals...

Guitarists would tell you it doesn't matter what kind of guitar you're playing, as long as you're making good music.
And what about "a bad workman always blames his tools..."?

This is a non-argument. The tools are irrelevant. The end-result is what counts.

quote:

The end-result is what counts

I coldn't agree more. No clients of ours are discussing what programme was used to built the website,they comment only what they like or dislike.