Hello,

(A) This is either, plus or minus the odd item, my last major posting on Web Engine, SVG and Graphic Design, ...or the start of some serious discussions as to why I rate Web Engine so highly as an SVG tool --- say, even compared to RealDraw and Illustrator 10. Which is to say that on the matter of graphic design and SVG, as far as I am concerned, the only two programs worthy of discussion are Web Engine and XStudio 2.1 by EvolGrafix, a company located in Germany. And, it should be noted, it does Virtual Mechanics no harm whatsoever to be mentioned in the same sentence as EvolGrafix.

Reflect upon the following citation from an introduction to XStudio:

"We specialize in the graphic-and visualization-area....All our applications are build upon the XML/HTML and SVG standards (Scalable Vector Graphics, See XStudio the SVG Authoring Application)."

I am an advocate of SVG for four basic reasons: (a)...the possibilites it offers in its present form as released by the W3C (b)...its tremendous non-propriety potential (c)...it's ease of use, and (d)...the fact that it IS a standard.

I presume that Mozilla and Corel will eventually get their houses in order; and I also presume that SVG will not remain an exterior plugin for ever. But, as I have mentioned before, SVG is sitting at a pivot point right now; and it is either going to fall into a D_L niche, or it is going to -- if not outright challenge HTML for the bragging rights as the Lingua Franca of the Net -- then certainly going to attain "Second Language" status.

It frankly drives me nuttier than usual to hear people say that they are waiting to see just how successful SVG is going to become before they commit to it in even the smallest degree. Though I can understand some reluctance on the matter, the above attitude reflects, pure and simple, everything that a pioneer is not -- and it is pioneers who shape the world; ironically not always finding the "golden highway" for themselves, but creating many a one for others.

The one thing I have done all too frequently is fail to be cohesive in my discussions concerning SVG. Like an old oxbow river, I do meander. But I assure you that I am very focused right now: time is worth more than gold to me.

(B) Vector Mechanics built Web Engine et al to make money. And Web Engine is multifarious -- opportunites for virtually all interests and temperments. So I don't have the slightest problem with any one working in HTML if they do so knowing full well what their options are. But just as you would hate to see a rapidly failing man dig his grave with a spoon when a shovel was available, so I hate to see creative talent wasted for lack of information about the availability of a better tool and some basic instructions on how to use it to its full potential.

I want to see VM succeed; both for what is in it for them and what is in it for me. But as far as I can determine, though HTML may be the tool which puts steak on their plates; it isn;t going to put any on mine; nor is going to let Derry, Goldie, Harpo, and Peter et al retire in mansions in the Bahamas. SVG, the best tool they have to offer, just might though.

(C) There was a day when I didn't understand beans about Geophysics, and a day when I was master of my craft. The former is my present situation with Graphic Design; the latter is my dream for which I am prepared to work my butt off -- and much work indeed will be required for I am anything but a "natural" at this business.

Thus my interest in discussing in the forum, amongst many other themes, one and two point perspective. SVG, when all is said and done, reaches its ultimate expressions when it is used to present "depth" --- psuedo 3D if you will, our best effort at reformatting the real world in our individual artistic terms on a 2D surface.

Perspective was a discovery made in incomplete form by the ancient Greeks, and re-discovered and refined into the form we more-or-less know it today by the early Renaissance artists. I said previously that I would initiate a discussion on perspective if two people showed any interest.
Only Derry did; but I figure that he is worth two mere mortals so later today or tomorrow I start.

I have undoubtedly bored many or most of you. That, if true, is not OK but is something which I can live with for it is the pioneers in the world I wish to close ranks with.

There is more to Web Engine than bugs and features yet to come. That is all a means to an end, and the end is graphic design. This in turn is a badly neglected subject in this forum though part of its mandate.

Next: "A Brief History on Perspective"

Pensive Cheers,
Muzz

Just rearranging.

Muzz

Hi Muzz,

That would be a 'sail boat' in the Bahamas

In all seriousness, as stated many times we are quite committed to SVG and if we had a city block full of programmers (and UI, graphic design, help & tutorial writers, etc, etc) we just might build a suite of SVG products!

- Derry

Hello RC ..

lack of replies to your tomes on VM / SVG does not mean lack of interest .. just that we have to get on with other tasks from time to time ..

here is a contribution on perspectives ..

Perspective Resources on the WWW

I hope I did not convey in an earlier opinion that SVG is a niche technology ..

there are other interesting applications I've found which use SVG output .. one example here .. graphics tool .. which you can experiment with.

D_L

Hi Derry and D_L

(A) Derry, with respect to this:

"In all seriousness, as stated many times we are quite committed to SVG and if we had a city block full of programmers (and UI, graphic design, help & tutorial writers, etc, etc) we just might build a suite of SVG products!

I (no longer) have any doubts about your committment to SVG; and thanks to my preoccuation with .jpg files am quite prepared to wait you out concerning my requests. But you seriously overestimate here what it is that I wish to see; and what I believe will buy you a sailboat.

I have already told Harpo, that unless you cribbed the scaling editor "box," then you have bragging rights to something unique as far as I know; but something that desparately needs pixel precision control to realize a significant proportion of the full potential of SVG.

And for purposes of summary:

(1) I request four digital counters to accurately fix the Cartesian Co-ordinates of the orign and the Polar Co-ordinates of the length and angle of the radial arm. There is not even a ruled guide on that tiny box.

(2) I request embedded fonts "across the board" as muchly discussed.

(3) I request a greater variety of geometrical objects to be added to linear, radial, and cylindrical as tapering mechanisms.

(4) and I request the ability to export a given SVG object as a .png or .jpg file to a specified location for further enhancing.

(5) coupled with, as am addendum, the slow addition of other "path" possiblities to the Path Editor.

These don't demand a city block of programmers, or any new physical plant:..."Just" a committment to work primarily on SVG for "x" months.

With those features you would be extremely competative in the SVG market without losing any of Web Engines present identity.

There is nothing on this link yet (10:40 MDT), but this, a non-copyrighted picture of a Surrealist painting by Salvador Dali, is, in part, an example of the type of work I wish to model my work after in my own style.

(embedded SVG)
http://members.shaw.ca/rcswebby/dalcruha.html

This, which may or may not be a copyright violation (I am attempting to contact the artist, Mr. Cox) is also, in part, the type of work I find inspirational.

(embedded SVG)
http://members.shaw.ca/rcswebby/capturha.html

I may be asking a great deal in total, but nothing which demands a major change in VM's profile.

Hoping that clarifies things,
Cheers.
...............................................

(B) ...Hi D_L,... great to hear from you.

(a) With respect to:

"lack of replies to your tomes on VM / SVG does not mean lack of interest .. just that we have to get on with other tasks..."

...my question and point are quite simple: Is there enough interest to justify my time for I am busier than I have ever been in my life. "Discussion" is the key to this. For anyone who is interested, I can just post links similar to the gem you posted and call it a day.

The "tome" is in the link instead of in my dissertation. Or, I can create an SVG link to my own dissertation.
And that (especially the latter) will likely be the format for, as stated elsewhere, no lerning is so through as when you try to summarize and teach a subject. But without discussion it wouldn't be a heck of a lot of fun. And other opportunities beckon:

A new version of Image Analyzer from Meesoft has just been released;

http://MeeSoft.com

...but what might interest you is their version of "Total Commander" called "Commander." The two are similar in objectives; but quite distinct, the latter being more "image oriented."

...and what also interests me, and discussions are pending, is the possibility of contributing to the documentation and eventually writing plugins via Delphi, a derivative of Pascal. This is a means of financing the "donation."

(b) ...as to the following,

"I hope I did not convey in an earlier opinion that SVG is a niche technology..."

...I am afraid that you did, or at least predicted that as its fate. Sort of like Macs. Not to worry; I simply saw it as a challenge. Immediate financing for RealDraw is not available. And 3D-Canvas doesn't offer anything except a properiety format output.

But I ask, which was the start of this whole business here, why do I need those programs if I possess SVG with some very good geomentry editors; some good tapering schemes; the ability to add texture through the Shading Editor either though the "box" or importing .jpg textures? --- which when coupled with a good working knowledge of one or two or "n" point perspective will allow the creation of my own 3D?

Thanks again D_L,
Cheers,

Muzz

[This message was edited by RC on September 20, 2003 at 01:30 AM.]

RC

One problem with writing "tomes" in forums such as this is that the content soon becomes stale or lost .. found again only when someone is searching .. quite a waste of your creative writing talent ..

If you feel so fervently for the subject matter, have you thought of creating your own "blog" account .. so you keep an ongoing diary of your experiences and ideas .. and links to your SVG gallery .. then you might open up wider dialogue with artists and graphical designers .. other than just the VM community

Then all you need do in this forum is point to one of your blogs ..

http://new.blogger.com/home.pyra

Blogger.com is owned by google.com

There are other blog servers such as Radioland.com

D_L

RC

On the matter of objects in perspective ..

I can now see the difficulty you have with the limited editor in WebEngine ..

I've just tried to create an object with boundary lines passing through the "vanishing point" .. difficult ..

...

So here is an idea ..

Create an external script which calculates the dimensions of an SVG object in perspective

boundary lines of the object (equation y=mx+c) should pass through the vanishing point

then cut the externally created SVG code and place into WebEngine using the code editor.

D_L

p.s. .. it seems that there is no line editor in webengine

in xxxxxxx you can easily set the x1, x2, y1, y2 coordinates.

VM note ??

[This message was edited by D_L on September 20, 2003 at 12:43 PM.]

[This message was edited by Derry on September 22, 2003 at 10:11 AM.]

RC

this is a cheeky tip ..

I've found that xxxx xxxxxxx can still be used post its free trial period (30 day) to still create SVG code .. which you can then cut and place into WebEngine .. the only constraint is that you can't publish via xxxxxxx .. so go for it to create xxxxxxx objects in perspective to import into WebEngine .. perhaps learning what perspective editing features are needed in webEngine.

D_L

[This message was edited by Derry on September 20, 2003 at 02:36 PM.]

Hi D_L,

I hate to dampen your enthusiasm, but at some point we have to draw the line on what is acceptable to post on these forums. Though extending the features of Web Engine is a more than valid topic, I don't think that other company you mentioned would be too pleased with your 'cheeky tip' being posted here.

Of course, whatever you post as a 'Private Topic' is not seen or moderated by anyone. However, please remember that whatever you post here can be seen by all.

- Derry

Derry

I accept the reprimand .. sorry .. it was cheeky .. perhaps you should also edit the preceding post ..

I can't remember, but it may be that Amaya has similar features.

D_L

OK.

Remember that any requests for additional features for any of our products are taken seriously (especially when they are posted under the Feature Requests forum)!

- Derry