When I create a project, I have learned to create a "Master or Back Page". This page is never published but is where I create a background, logo, buttons etc that are common to all my pages.

Q. Would it be possible to create an inbuilt 'master page' that is the last page in the project and never published.

The main feature I would like with this is object positioning, so that should I add, for example, a new background to a project of 100 pages I don't need to go through each page and push it to the back.

In other words, the position on the master page would be reflected all the way through the project because the objects are common to all pages. Once it is pushed to the back off the master page, it goes to the same position in all the pages. (Fortunately it is relatively simple with a background, as it IS all the way back.. next page, select object, push to back, next page, select object all the way to back.. etc, but it is tedious)

(FYI I do renumber the objects so that they make sense to me and the order I want it in the sourse code for SEO. ie
Background is usually - 0001
Logo is - 0002
Footer Link box - 0003
Underlying buttons 1000 - 1010
Top Buttons 2000-2010
etc

If on the other hand, I have missed something and it is easy to make sure an object goes to the same position on all pages with a single click, please let me know how its done...

The Publishing->Pages tab has a Page Range area where you can select a from-to page range. If your master page is always at the start or end of the page order list, you could exclude it by specifying the actual page numbers to publish. You can use the Page->Page Order... menu option to view/arrange your page order, and the dialog's title bar tells you how many pages are in your project.

How are you adding your background to your pages? Do you not use the Page Editor->Background tab? There is an "All Pages" button there that will put a background on all the pages currently in your project.

Look at the tutorial on Includes and Clones. These copy methods allow you to place an object on multiple pages. The Include method is very good at placing exact copies at the same place on every page or just on the pages you select (use the mouse right-click menu).

Hi larryd, thank you very much for your reply.

yes, when I publish , I exclude my last page, ie if I have 100 pages I publish 1-99. (the idea would be that 'master page' is auto excluded) - essentially it would be the first page designed, something like an auto updateable template)

I should have been clearer.. I use a background which 'tiles' but I also use a 'backdrop to contrast the background and the text

I do use the 'includes", which positions each object at the same place on the page, but not at the same 'depth'. The problem has been when I do a change of objects it automatically comes to the front. (My apologies for using the term background... think again of a backdrop to contrast the background itself).

I will look closer into clones, but my understanding with clones is you can change the position on the page, but, forexample with a text box, text remains the same... very useful for the footer link and copyright box when it is at a different position on the page, but allows you to update all the text, say when you add a new page by updating one - as opposed to copy paste which gives you a copy that requires individual attention)

With regard to bakground/backdrop, The header, logo and cloud form the 'backdrop - ie remains the same on all pages but above the blue tiled background' (In a master page I would include the link buttons) I have included Backpage to show you the backdrop for ALL pages

http://nextstep2success.com
http://nextstep2success.com/backpage.html

Nice layout.

I see now what your background consists of; a picture IS worth a thousand words.

I'm not sure I like the idea of auto-excluding a page, but I think some easy method, maybe a check-box, could be used to indicate if a page is or is not to be published. The current page range does not let you pick and choose pages from the middle of a project. Maybe a menu dialog like the includes where you can select all, unselect all or use individual page check-boxes.

I never thought too much about an object changing z-order (is this what depth means?) when it is included on a page. Bruce is the wiz on z-order; I'm sure he will shed light on this.

You are correct about clones; they are only useful if all you want to do is change position.

Another thought about your background/backdrop situation. You could leave your background on every page via the Page Editor and then use a code object to place your backdrop on every page. The code object can reside on your master page and be included on every page as needed. And you could set the z-order in code so there would be no need to manually move it to the back.

Thanks for your comment aleways appreciated!

I am fiddling and will add buttons to back page and will simply copy page whn I need a new one.

The problems only really occur when updating a page with a button, for example.

Yes I like that idea, the ability to exclude a page by ticking a box would work fine! That way you could name a page master page or back page and still be able to publish.

Maybe the approach would be ... (tick box) Do NOT publish last page.
And that 'last page" can be the 'master page".

Thanks again for your input larryd!

This forum really is one of the better forums online for positive, constructive and quick help. Congratulations VM and also to it's users on being an excellent online community!

Oops, I was too slow so missed seeing your pages -- I guess you have taken them down.

Why not set your index page or some "real" page as the master? (I.e a page that you actually want to publish.)

Sure, there will stuff on that page that you don't want to copy to fresh pages, so mark that with a page copy method of "Private".

Hey Brucee,
Nice to hear from you,

Yes you are right, some of my other projects are littered with objects that were once on a page and are now included on none, but are kept there... just in case

and Yes I could do it on a 'real' page which is what I used to do, until I started littering the back page

But the idea is to be able to adjust the Z ( depth) - position (ie forward or back). So that when a new object is added it normally defaults to the front. But instead when you push it to the back and then include it on other pages it would like it to go to the same position.

(and I can see there would be some difficulties in doing this)

Maybe a way to do it would be the option to renumber objects (like renameing pages) and then be able to display objects in numerical ascending (or descending) order, on all pages they are included, (from the master page)

All that would need to be done is renumber the text boxes, but this could be awkward for novices to work out

(BTW.. Those links should work, my 'backpage' is still up. (if you check source code you'll see the objects and how they are numbered)

Yes, both pages are there for me now -- I was getting "page not found" errors last night.

As you note, "including" a fresh object on a page automatically brings it "to front". The "to front" action occurs even when the source object is "to back" on the master page. And there is no easy way of changing that behavior

Since this is the features request forum, let's think more about how it might work:

1. If an object is to back and you include on other pages, it should go to back there as well.

2. If an object is second to back, and there is a common object already at the back, the include is also second to back. (By "common" I mean an included object that is on both the source and destination pages.)

3. If an object is third to back, and there is a common object already at the back, and another common second to back, the include is also third to back.

4. For other objects, continue this while there are only common objects already further back. As soon as a non-common object occurs the include goes to front. As it does now.

That probably would go a fair way to implementing what you want -- and I would find this useful too.

If you are fixing an object that is already at the back, don't delete it! Rather change it. You can make radical changes to an object by replacing its geometry -- e.g. by selecting new geometry for it via the Quick Editor.

Larry's idea of setting the Z-Order with a code object has merit too. You could have the code dynamically set objects with particular numbers at particular places in the z-order on any page. You might say that any objects of the form "obj0001"-"obj0010" will occupy z-orders 1-10 on the page, regardless of their start z-order. I haven't actually done this though -- just thinking about it

Hi Brucee, thanks again for your constructive comments. (And you too Larry)

What you mention are all good points.

If a 'non published master page" is not an option, then the simplest approach would be to have the option to copy the Z position on the 'includes'.
ie
Ad the new object which defaults to front.
Move the object to new position XY axis. Position object (front/back) Z axis.
Then when 'include object', an option to check box - "[] Same Z position?"

What about positioning a range of objects in "Project Options"
[]Arrange object Z depth by object number?
[]Ascending or []descending?

Then by logically renumbering objects to four digits (in my case) and "descending".

New unique objects would auto default to 3 digits and be at the front, in this case the push forward/back icons would switch off as it is auto ascending/descending.

By renumbering in increments of 10 or keeping the <1000 range for unique objects you can shift text/unique object positions by a straightforward renumbering.

eg the four digit objects are all included on all pages

9999 backdrop pic
9990 logo
9980 small graphic
9970 website title
9960 footer link & copyright notice (text object on all pages)
8990 button 9 underlying
8980 button 8 underlying
8970 button 7 underlying etc
7990 button 9 top
7980 button 8 top
7970 button 7 top etc

When an object unique to the page is added ie a pic or text, the object defaults to the three digits. If fine tuning is required say for SEO keyword positioning of text, a quick renumber of the unique object numbers would allow position changes.

or

At anytime I want to go back to the icons to push forward and back, I can uncheck the 'Project Options [] Object z depth by object number?' and the objects remain as they were, neatly ordered and I can then fine tune by clicking the icon...

Apologies if I'm rambling or pointing out the "bleedin' obvious"